Breaking News, World News and Taiwan News.

Tsai blasted for R.O.C. legitimacy remark

TAIPEI, Taiwan -- Officials yesterday leapt to the defense of the country against opposition leader Tsai Ing-wen's claim that the “Republic of China” is a “government in exile.”

Presidential spokesman Lo Chih-chiang said it was a serious slip-up for Tsai, chairwoman of the Democratic Progressive Party, to “dwarf” the country and deny its legitimacy.

“Such an attitude of self-denial has at the same time debased the DPP itself, which was once the ruling party,” Lo said.

The spokesman also questioned whether the DPP considered its eight-year governance of the country “unlawful and invalid.”

Lo asked if Tsai was denying the DPP's “Resolution on Taiwan's Future,” which states that “Taiwan is an independent sovereign state that is named the Republic of China under its current Constitution.”

Tsai on Tuesday said the R.O.C. government in exile has been an embodiment of authoritarian rule and “Chinaness” for decades.

But change has occurred, with “Chinaness” giving way to “Taiwanness” in the formation of a “Taiwan subjectivity,” said Tsai, who served as vice premier at one point during the DPP's eight years in power between 2000 and 2008.

She was making the remarks during an event debuting a book on the R.O.C.'s “60 years of exile” in Taiwan and the post World War II international situation faced by island.

The Kuomintang troops fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to the Chinese communists, who overthrew China's first-ever republic built on 1911.

Cabinet spokesman Johnny Chiang responded to tsai's claims by stressing that the ROC is a sovereign state with a 99-year history and its democratization has allowed peaceful transfers of power from one political party to another.

“The existence of the Republic of China is undisputable,” Chiang said.

May 27, 2010    kpartsctr@
I am a Chinese born in Philippines, but I have never denied being Chinese. During the early years, we did our best to support and help the people of Taiwan assuming that we have the same roots and race. We can safely say we have a significant contribution to what Taiwan is today. Now, those Chinese in Taiwan are denying they are Chinese. I guess a person who refuses to admit who he is worse than a pig!
May 27, 2010    the_alliance47@
People who use claim that the Treaty of San Francisco does not specify the status of Taiwan could not be more wrong. In international law, the Treaty of San Francisco codifies Japan's acknowledgment that it had illegally occupied Taiwan since the end of the First Sino-Japanese War and that the Treaty of Shimonoseki is in fact invalid. Therefore, for half a century, Japanese troops had been illegally occupying Chinese territory.

It is not as accurate to describe the Republic of China as a government in exile so much as it would be to describe it as a rump state.

To say that the Chinese Communist Party overthrew the ROC government is to suggest that Taiwan is a province of the PRC, which has never been, is not, and will never be true.

Honestly, the same people who claim that Taiwan is not legally under the jurisdiction of the ROC government are the same people who think that Taiwan is part of the United States.
May 27, 2010    johnny.brian@
It's kind of sad, but true the ROC is an exile government from China from logically thinking of DPP. The ex.pres. Chen shiu bian (now jailed for corruption) once called ROC a "cupcake" (literally) government, which means he ruled Taiwan for 8 meaningless years. No wonder why he and his family enrich by themselves.
Now, Tsai is using the same ideology to win election. Just plain and simple truth, if DPP thinks KMT is an exile government, no need to join the elections. If DPP truly fights for the people, use gallant efforts.
If the "exile" ideology, there are really a lot of governments around the world are illegitimate.
May 27, 2010    cigars898@
kpartsctr@ wrote:
I am a Chinese born in Philippines, but I have never denied being Chinese. During the early years, we did our best to support and help the people of Taiwan assuming that we have the same roots and race. We can safely say we have a significant contribution to what Taiwan is today. Now, those Chinese in Taiwan are denying they are Chinese. I guess a person who refuses to admit who he is worse than a pig!
Why did you need to assume that you had the same roots and race? Sounds a lot like racism to me. Are you saying that all people in Taiwan are ethnically Chinese or their nationality is Chinese? There is a huge difference.
May 27, 2010    nn74@
This is merely lawyer-speak. The DPP claims Taiwan as a country by the name Taiwan, not the Republic of China. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with that is merely a subject of opinion. True, many sources mention the movement of Mainlanders to Taiwan during--and even before the Ming Dynasty. But to claim Taiwan as "Chinese" would in essence also claim Singapore is part of China, as would be any Chinatown anywhere in any country of the world. True, Taiwan has a history of being Chinese. It is hard to separate the history and culture of Taiwan from that of Mainland China. However, as "the_alliance47" stated above, Taiwan has never been a part of the PRC. That is indisputable.
May 27, 2010    carltanong@
Tsai DESIRES... has affected her consciousness and caused her brain intermittently to think straight that Republic of China is a sovereign state and will celebrate her 100th years Birthday next year 2011/10/10.
So SAD Tsai forgets that she's an illegitimate daughter of the Taiwanese aborigines and her ancestor come from the mainland. So SAD that her DESIRES have caused her political purposes and personal gains these coming elections as a woman without principles.
So SAD to hear her absurd remarks. Tsai looks like a night-crawler.
So SAD that her Chinese ancestor will cry for her inside their grave.
May 27, 2010    jeremygreenway@
the_alliance47@ wrote:
People who use claim that the Treaty of San Francisco does not specify the status of Taiwan could not be more wrong. In international law, the Treaty of San Francisco codifies Japan's acknowledgment that it had illegally occupied Taiwan since the end of the First Sino-Japanese War and that the Treaty of Shimonoseki is in fact invalid. Therefore, for half a century, Japanese troops had been illegally occupying Chinese territory.

It is not as accurate to describe the Republic of China as a government in exile so much as it would be to describe it as a rump state.

To say that the Chinese Communist Party overthrew the ROC government is to suggest that Taiwan is a province of the PRC, which has never been, is not, and will never be true.

Honestly, the same people who claim that Taiwan is not legally under the jurisdiction of the ROC government are the same people who think that Taiwan is part of the United States.
I think you are referring to the Treaty of Taipei signed in 1952, which nobody recognizes except the KMT because it was signed after the Treaty of San Francisco in 1951. So Japan could not relinquish sovereignty to the ROC in 1952 because they had already done so to no one in 1951. The Treaty of Shimonoseki also recognized the full independence of Korea. Does that mean Korea still belongs to China too? A state's territory is not fixed and eternal. It changes over time due to war, conquest and the signing of treaties! Maybe the UK should reclaim the USA because they became independent illegally!
May 27, 2010    jokebruiserHH66@
<>

Good the KMT completely clarifies that point to the world! Now we understand!
May 27, 2010    michaeltaiwan2000@
I don't get it. Is the ROC on Taiwan a part of China or is it an independent country?
May 28, 2010    maxim@
It is a shame and a disserve to our ancestors to deny oneself as an (ethnic) Chinese, if one has the surname like Tsai, Lee, Chen, Huang, Ma, etc. As the chairwoman of DPP has the surname Tsai, then she is undoubtedly an ethnic Chinese, otherwise she would have a Taiwan's aborigine's surname. Those who proclaim themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese in Taiwan, they need to reflect themselves, what shame and disservice they bring to their ancestors migrating centuries ago from mainland China.

Whether you came with General Chiang from China or your ancestors came from mainland centuries ago, you cannot deny yourself as a Chinese. You are Han-Chinese.

Tsai should be grateful to live in a democratic Taiwan, ROC. Who made it possible? General Chiang made it possible. If he would give up that time, Taiwan would be part of PRC long time ago. Under the government of ROC, Tsai can and could thrive. How can she say that ROC is an exile government? She could lose her rudimentary sense. It is really sad to see her.

Please look at the ethnic Chinese living overseas. Though they have their own countries' citizenship, they never deny that they are ethnic Chinese. Most of them still preserve their surname or have their surname embedded in their local name. The overseas Chinese still practice the Chinese tradition in their home countries.

Tsai, DPP members or Taiwan Chinese (Chinese Taiwan), if you deny yourself as Chinese, please change your name to truly Taiwan name. The aborigines in Taiwan are truly the owner of Taiwan. You are not the ones eligible to proclaim independence. What independence you want? You are ethnic Chinese in Taiwan and you want to free yourselves from the other Chinese. It is ridiculous.
May 28, 2010    ludahai_twn@
@the_alliance47 - The Peace Treaty of San Francisco does no such thing. The Japanese occupation of Taiwan was completely in accordance with international law. The Treaty of Shimonoseki was completely in accordance with international law as it was practiced in 1895. The fifty-year Japanese occupation was completely legal. Furthermore, it is absolutely correct to point out that in the San Francisco Peace Treaty, Japan did not assign sovereignty of Taiwan to any foreign power. This is something that is absolutely required to transfer territory from one state to another. Obviously, it is clear that the ROC WAS a government in exile, which is what Chairperson Tsai said. Of course, the KMT is deliberately being obtuse and misconstruing her words. So typical because the KMT can't win an honest debate or discussion on the issue because the facts of the matter are against them.
May 28, 2010    philippemckay@
The author of the article wrote:
"Presidential spokesman Lo Chih-chiang said it was a serious slip-up for Tsai, chairwoman of the Democratic Progressive Party, to “dwarf” the country and deny its legitimacy" and it mentions governments in exile.

Yes, it's not good for the DPP to de-legitimize other political parties. How...ever, how can the KMT complain? The KMT is actively interacting with the CCP. The CCP's official stance is that the DPP are illegitimate, and Taiwan’s political process is not to be recognized.

...."President" Ma, had to be addressed only as "Mr." Ma when he went to china. The insecurity of such a large country like china is amazing.....

Is it a case of.... what’s good for the goose is good for the gander....

To be Chinese is not necessarily to be a person from china, there are ethnic Chinese which does not mean one identifies or is tied to china in the modern sense...

Basically the DPP can use this idea of who is legitimate better, not just in a self-serving manner. They can use it to force the KMT-CCP relationship to be clearly articulated: how the Taiwanese political process is viewed by the CCP.
If the CCP is willing to state the DPP is illegitimate, that will force the KMT into a corner to decide whether they are "Taiwan-knees" or Taiwanese. It will identify whether the KMT is willing to participate with others who question the legitimacy of the DPP when the KMT wishes the DDP not to question the KMT's legitimacy to participate.
May 28, 2010    bajingan111@
Agreed with kpartsctr, being a Chinese born in Indonesia, I have been supporting the KMT government my entire life hoping one day they will succeed in taking Mainland back and thus having Greater China FULLY reunified. Trust me, this is a dream of every single Chinese person except for some 'Taiwanese' idiots like ah bian and Tsai (as in 'S**T') who think they are half Japanese and half American. I now realize that I'm wrong for supporting Taiwanese Chinese all these years!! One last thing, to all the Taiwanese: you are a disgrace to your Ancestors!! And watch out, the commies have 1,500 missiles aimed at you! From a proud Chinese person, Wijaya :)
May 28, 2010    arthurTsai^8^@
@bajingan111

"except for some 'Taiwanese' idiots"

correction: many Taiwanese patriots (unfortunately)

Your problem is not the DPP, it's your free Taiwanese "compatriots" refusing to bow to your arrogance. You also don't know what the KMT stands for. KMT supporters don't need hateful people like yourself giving us your irrelevant comments.

About the missiles: come on, use them if you dare, and bomb your own (Chinese) economy back to the Ching dynasty by provoking the anger of the world you completely depend on for economic greatness.

From a proud Taiwanese and REAL KMT supporter.
May 28, 2010    cigars898@
to: bajingan111@

You are exactly what is wrong with this world.
May 28, 2010    jeremygreenway@
carltanong@ wrote:
Tsai DESIRES... has affected her consciousness and caused her brain intermittently to think straight that Republic of China is a sovereign state and will celebrate her 100th years Birthday next year 2011/10/10.
So SAD Tsai forgets that she's an illegitimate daughter of the Taiwanese aborigines and her ancestor come from the mainland. So SAD that her DESIRES have caused her political purposes and personal gains these coming elections as a woman without principles.
So SAD to hear her absurd remarks. Tsai looks like a night-crawler.
So SAD that her Chinese ancestor will cry for her inside their grave.
Remember that when the ROC was originally created in 1911, Formosa (Taiwan) had already been a Japanese colony since 1895 when it was signed away by the Ching Dynasty. So Taiwan was never part of its territory. So what are the Taiwanese exactly commemorating on 10/10? The ROC lost the mainland in 1949, so in fact the ROC is a state without any territory (any legitimate territory that is) unless the KMT still cling to the notion that they are the rightful rulers of the Mainland.
May 28, 2010    loversunited@
to arthurtsai^8^

The more disparity between Taiwan and China is professed in media like this paper, the greater the distance between Mainland and Taiwan. Cowards like banjingan111 understand this. They don't want us to unify. Should we ever do so, they will need to find other outlets for their mentally challenged condition.
May 29, 2010    carltanong@
Treaty of San Francisco was controversial and considered as NULL and VOID.
Treaty of Shimonoseki can prove that Japan was an aggressor and occupied Taiwan illegally by the use of FORCE.
Treaty of Peace signed by Republic of China and Japan can prove that TAIWAN belonged to CHINA since ancient times.
REPUBLIC of CHINA at present governs TAIWAN, KINMEN, MATSU, PESCADORES and part of SPRATLY ISLAND can prove that REPUBLIC of CHINA is NOT a government in EXILE. R.O.CHINA is now 99 years in existence as of today.
Tsai’s remark proved that she is a woman without principles. Her purpose is political and personal gains from the VOTER'S BALLOT.
Tsai has abandoned her own Chinese mainland ancestor. Tsai also abandoned and SOLD TAIWAN OUT.

Tsai, a friendly advice and seminal for you.
Government in EXILE means that the seat of Government was in a FOREIGN COUNTRY.
You, the DPP are all in EXILE living peacefully and good life in REPUBLIC of CHINA, because all of you are STATELESS and all has abandoned your own Chinese ancestor in the mainland.
If you and the DPP are not satisfied living in R.O.China, you Tsai and partners can leave R.O.China to another country of your own choice and DESIRES.
May 29, 2010    michaeltaiwan2000@
Aborigines as well as foreigners residing here are also required to have a Chinese name. Anyway I think she (Tsai) is just saying what everyone else is thinking. The ROC was a government exiled to the island of Taiwan. China is ruled by the PRC. So either Taiwan should forget the ROC and take up its position as a province of China OR it is an independent country. Anything else is just confusion.
May 29, 2010    nn74@
Again, by claiming all ethnic Chinese as merely Chinese, you complicate the situation so much that anyone living in any Chinatown anywhere on any part of the planet must be a member of the Chinese state. By using ethnicity only to define who or what you are means that a person whose Polish great-grandfather went to the US is Polish and not American or someone whose ancestors moved to Canada 200 years ago is French and not Canadian or that people in the PRC of Manchurian heritage are not Chinese. You can argue about all these things all you want, and you will solve nothing. Whether you see yourself as Chinese or not, the facts on the ground are that the ROC/Taiwan is not a part of the PRC. It never has been. We are lucky we can even mention this freely and openly here: on the other side of the Strait, this subject is taboo, and only one interpretation is allowed. We are fortunate. (This also proves in the real world that there is a very large distinction between the government on Taiwan and the government on the mainland.) Now, instead of wasting time and space discussing these issues of opinion and emotion that have no solution beyond ethnic cleansing, issues that have a solution--and need a solution--and are based on real situations, such as the fact that the PRC refuses to renounce the use of force to reunify Taiwan with the mainland should be discussed. In any potential war scenario with Mainland China, deep blue, light blue, light green, and deep green will all be affected and will have to stand side-by-side in resistance. That should unite you, not divide you. And THAT should define who and what you are.
May 29, 2010    zero_zlatan@
@arthurTsai^8^

Call on Taiwanese government to declare independence. I can rest assured Taiwan will be flat like JFK runway

From XinJiaBo with love.
May 30, 2010    hsiehmingyu@
As a DPP supporter, I applaud Arthur and Cigars for standing up for the other half of Taiwan. We live in a country of true democracy and have to co-exist with one another regardless of our differing views and ideals. I hope that DPP and KMT will continue to oppose but work together to build Taiwan as a nation. Peace out.
May 31, 2010    the_alliance47@
@jeremygreenway: I meant to say the Treaty of Taipei, because you are right, there was no representative of the ROC government at the signing of the SF Treaty.

If the Treaty of Taipei is invalid, then there was no formal conclusion of hostilities between the ROC and Japan. A peace treaty is needed to officially end hostilities. (The Instrument of Surrender may have ended WW2, but it is not a treaty).

The "question" about the status of Taiwan in relations with the ROC is just an unfortunate byproduct of the gross human rights violations that occurred during 1947/02/28 and the White Terror Era. It has absolutely no widespread acceptance from international lawyers whatsoever.

In fact, those who argue that Taiwan is in this weird international limbo of not having a legitimate government actually undermine the sovereignty of the country by officially recognizing that its residents are stateless people.

The Dang Wai Movement during the 1960s and 1970s was in fact a noble effort to democratize Taiwan and should be applauded for this principle. However, after democracy was legalized in the late-1980s, what grew out of this movement has ramped up the divisive issue of "independence." There is still room for improvement in terms of reinforcing representative democracy, civil liberties, and conforming to international standards of human rights. If Taiwan really wants to be taken seriously at the international level, these three areas need to be the focus of all domestic and foreign policies, not unproductive and internationally unpopular campaigns for independence.
May 31, 2010    carltanong@
arthurTsai^8^@ wrote:
@bajingan111

"except for some 'Taiwanese' idiots"

correction: many Taiwanese patriots (unfortunately)

Your problem is not the DPP, it's your free Taiwanese "compatriots" refusing to bow to your arrogance. You also don't know what the KMT stands for. KMT supporters don't need hateful people like yourself giving us your irrelevant comments.

About the missiles: come on, use them if you dare, and bomb your own (Chinese) economy back to the Ching dynasty by provoking the anger of the world you completely depend on for economic greatness.

From a proud Taiwanese and REAL KMT supporter.
Do you means the Taiwanese Aborigines or Taiwanese Chinese or Illegitimate sons and daughters of the Taiwanese Aborigines are idiots? Please make classification next time. Thanks for your cooperation.
May 31, 2010    arthurTsai^8^@
@carltanong
I refer to poor idiots who, although they can't read an English comment correctly, still insist on asking nonsensical questions about it.
May 31, 2010    johnny.brian@
People here claimed there is no "treaty" signed whether in San Francisco or in Taipei or Shimonoseki or in the moon (whatever, wherever, whenever). They denied everything. The truth is Taiwan is part of China after Japan surrendered in 1945. The legitimate government at that time and until now is R.O.C. The P.R.O.C. existed only after 1949 as R.O.C. retreated to an island called Taiwan. Few people just could not face reality.
May 31, 2010    cigars898@
zero_zlatan@ wrote:
@arthurTsai^8^

Call on Taiwanese government to declare independence. I can rest assured Taiwan will be flat like JFK runway

From XinJiaBo with love.
We already are independent.
May 31, 2010    arthurTsai^8^@
@zero_zlatan
"I can rest assured Taiwan will be flat like JFK runway"

Hahahaha !!!
(You even made my otherwise serious teenage daughter laugh!)
THAT'S FUNNY!!
(do you have any other similar mainland jokes?)
May 31, 2010    carltanong@
@cigars898
Didn’t I tell you long long ago that Taiwan and the rest of the islands governed by Republic of China are already independent and a sovereign state for 99 years.
Sir Tsai. Good news. Cigars898 is not an IDIOT any more. Right cigars898?
May 31, 2010    spacedreams82@
It doesn't matter whether you are from China or Taiwan, we are all Hua Ren. My mum is a Taiwanese, my dad is from mainland, and my wife to be is a Taiwanese. I have dozens of cousins from both sides (mainland and Taiwan). Imagine if there is a sequel to the civil war. Can someone from this forum advise me what to do? Does it mean my family is going to break apart? And millions out there are in the exact same situation.

Personally I think when Mr. Chiang fled to Taiwan, Taiwan was a part of China. Wouldn’t it? Otherwise he would have been questioned heavily by the Taiwanese border security and required to bring his passport along for the Taiwanese government to stamp. And assuming Taiwan wasn't part of China, bringing millions of people and soldiers as well as weaponry into another country. Are u kidding me?? hehehe..

Does it make sense guys? Sorry if it doesn’t. Just my humble opinion.
June 1, 2010    ludahai_twn@
@johnny_brian - There were two treaties signed and ratified and may be considered from the standpoint of international law.

San Francisco was signed and ratified first. Contrary to the outrageous claims of Carltanong, it is most definitely legal and valid. It is in fact recognized by the United Nations and the entire world outside of Taiwan (including China) as the governing document ending World War II. In that treaty, the claim Japan had regarding Taiwan with surrendered but with no beneficiary.

Taipei was a bilateral treaty signed between Taipei and Tokyo. It DOES have standing under international law and officially ended the state of war between the ROC and Japan. Provisions of that treaty ARE valid unless rendered invalid by a subsequent legally binding treaty or events beforehand remove the standing from one or both parties to make the provision. The problem here relates to the status of Taiwan. There is NO clear transfer provision. However, many take the recognition of ROC citizenship in the treaty to be an implicit recognition of territorial transfer. One could debate until your are blue in the face if this indeed constitutes a transfer legally as it is without precedent. Fortunately, we don't have to do that. Japan had already surrendered its sovereign claim over Taiwan in the San Francisco treaty which PRECEDED Taipei. As such, Japan no longer had any standing to assign sovereignty over Taiwan to anyone. That now resided with the signatories of the San Francisco treaty and with international law over territories with no sovereign authority. As such, the claim that the ROC and PRC makes to Taiwan lacks legal basis.
June 1, 2010    ludahai_twn@
@carltanong -- here we go again...

>>>Treaty of San Francisco was controversial and considered as NULL and VOID.

Only in your mind and the minds of other deep blues who have no understanding of international law.

>>>Treaty of Shimonoseki can prove that Japan was an aggressor and occupied Taiwan illegally by the use of FORCE.

Japan as the aggressor? What does Shimonoseki prove about that? China was equally in the wrong by not informing the Japanese government of its troop movements into Korea in accordance with the provisions of a prior agreement between the two countries. Furthermore, even if it were undoubtedly true that Japan was the aggressor, it would not matter. Even as late as the 1930s, aggressive war was NOT considered illegal under international law. Brazil tried to get such a provision inserted into the League of Nations in the 1920s, without success.

>>>Treaty of Peace signed by Republic of China and Japan can prove that TAIWAN belonged to CHINA since ancient times.

Since ancient times? There was no reference to ancient times in the document. In fact, Japan had serious questions regarding Chinese sovereignty over the island in the 1870s because the majority of the island wasn't even under Chinese control. China didn't even control a small portion of the island until 1682 when Admiral Shi Lang brought the kingdom of Tungning to heel.

>>>REPUBLIC of CHINA at present governs TAIWAN, KINMEN, MATSU, PESCADORES and part of SPRATLY ISLAND can prove that REPUBLIC of CHINA is NOT a government in EXILE. R.O.CHINA is now 99 years in existence as of today.

Except that, save for Kinmen and Matsu, the ROC never acquired legal title. Governing a territory does not mean you have legal sovereignty over it. I guess, then, you would recognize Japanese sovereignty over the Tiaoyutai and Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights. You really have to get out of your deep blue bubble once in a while.
June 1, 2010    carltanong@
@ludahai_twn
The world is too small for both of us who live in very far distances but seem like neighbors. But it’s nice to know that you are a teacher.-now we go again.
1-Treaty of San Francisco was controversial and considered NULL and VOID.
Please refer to your own statements at “Taiwan insists on Chinese Taipei“. Your arguments are inconsistent. Please refer to your own typing on Feb 18 and Feb 20 in the year 2010.
2-Treaty of Shimonoseki....
If Japan was not an aggressor, how come America’s Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese without prior warning? How come many Asian women became comfort women? Some of them are still alive to tell you their ordeals.
3-Treaty of Peace...
As a literature teacher, you should understand what ancient times mean. From Qing dynasty to previous dynasty etc etc...
If you don’t accept R.O.China, that’s your own argument. If you insist on the 2 words LEGAL TITLE, then tell the White Americans that America belongs to the Red Indians, Hawaii belongs to the Hawaiians, Alaska belong to the Alaskans. Texas and Arizona belong to the Mexicans. My poor foster sister Annalyn, an American (European British), then shall stay in our haciendas forever. Or stay in our Makati residence at Forbes Park. Because she is white, she has no legal right to return to her hometown at Detroit. Right or Wrong? Do you dare go to the White Americans and lecture them blah blah blah?
June 4, 2010    cigars898@
carltanong@ wrote:
@cigars898
Didn’t I tell you long long ago that Taiwan and the rest of the islands governed by Republic of China are already independent and a sovereign state for 99 years.
Sir Tsai. Good news. Cigars898 is not an IDIOT any more. Right cigars898?
Let me clarify. In most people's minds we are independent but we have yet found anyone in office with the guts to say it for fear of being destroyed by our Mao loving neighbors to the west.
June 7, 2010    hotelcalifornia@
@carltanong
"The world is too small for both of us"

No, but there's a special place for people with your mindset.
June 10, 2010    charles@
The ROC is independent. Taiwan is not.
Taiwan is part of ROC.
June 10, 2010    charles@
Let us think about all these treaties and use an analogy.
Once a group of crooks invaded someone's home and kicked out the homeowner after forcing him to sign a document saying that this home belong to the crooks. The police and court system was corrupt and does not want to help. The homeowner died before he could find anyone to help him remove the crooks from his home. He had two sons that hated each other. They are fighting all the time. The crooks saw that these two sons had even more property that can be forcefully taken from them. After all the crooks took the father's home and got away with it. But this time there were some bystanders that helped the two sons.

The crooks not only did not manage to get any more homes from the two brothers but actually lost the original home they took many years ago.

But during this time the relationship between the two brothers got very bad and they no longer talked to each other. One of the brothers forced the crooks to sign a document that says the crooks no longer hold any claim on this home. In the mean time the bystanders who helped the brothers could not agree on which brother the home belongs to so makes the crook sign a document that the crooks do not claim that home any more.

Many years later the son who took over this home had two sons. They too had problems with each other. One of the two sons now claims that the crooks never gave the home back to his father but actually gave it to one of the bystanders. The other son argues that the crooks who took the home have no right to give it to anyone but back to the heirs of the original owner.

So who does the home belong to?
June 11, 2010    universalgreen@
"So who does the home belong to?" (charles@)
Although your long analogy resembles a biblical parable, your story is a simple case of Darwinism (survival of the fittest).

The father's children and grandchildren messed up big time and would not have anything left without the help of the bystanders. Lack of b**ls, some would say now. Answer: the bystanders.

"The ROC is independent. Taiwan is not.
Taiwan is part of ROC." (charles@)

Since you seem to like biblical analogies involving families, here's a famous and very similar one:
The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but One.

Like your remark, this one also makes perfect sense to me!:)



June 15, 2010    creztor@
The DPP is bent on killing itself. No need to even try, let them tie their own noose.
June 15, 2010    johnny.brian@
@ludahai_twn:
Well, the information I got is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan, the first sentence of 3rd paragraph. You like to argue about Taiwan between R.O.C., proving the Taiwan is ??? and the ROC is X?Y. I still prefer to read Wiki than read your argument or debate (I am lost).

charles@:
I like the story about the owner, crooks, the brothers, the sons of son and the bystander. The irony here is whether the home leaves to sons, it will have no permanent owner because of hate and there's always thief around.

carltanong@
I agree with you. It is SO SAD to see someone with "Chinese-looking" person, continues to disown his/her own ancestry root, just because of politics.

Pop quiz:
What was the meaning of ROC represented in the United Nations, until the US switched to mainland China until 1971? ROC is legitimate according to United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758.

It was the proudest moment in the ROC history until ROC was expelled by the UN itself and when most nations began switching recognition to the PROC.

Bottom line is every time I checked my ID and mirror, the ID says I am a ROC citizen (resident) and I am of yellow race.

That's all I need to know.
June 23, 2010    chrismillynn@
I am an Australian and I am married to a woman from Taiwan. I travel and spend much of my time between Taiwan and China and I find the identity of Taiwan so interesting. My wife and much of her family see themselves and Taiwan as Chinese, although they would like to continue to enjoy the freedoms that they currently have as opposed to the Chinese. I feel though, through my travels that the people of Taiwan have an emerging culture that is noticeably different from the people of China. The outcome of these issues are out of my hands, but should ultimately lay in the hands of the people of Taiwan - I hope that they understand what a beautiful thing that they have inherited.
June 28, 2010    carltanong@
@chismilynn
Both of us are resemblance on one case...(Traveling to China and Taiwan) if only you tell the truth.

You said you are a Australian marrying a Taiwanese Chinese. That means you are using your Taiwanese Chinese wife to assert your point of view. That’s ungentlemanly like ludahai_twn.

Now. I’m going to tell you the beautiful things between R.O.C and P.R.O.C. Shanghai and other big city had changed. Their lifestyles are much more modern than P.R.O.C of yesteryear. Taipei and other big city had changed. Their lifestyles are more modern than R.O.C of yesteryear. Am I right? But the cultural heritage will never change even times changes. And don’t forget that Taiwan is R.O.China.
You better visit the National Museum in Taiwan. Those treasures of heritage prove that Taiwanese Chinese are Chinese. It’s so beautiful that those Treasures can teach every Chinese even the four seas Chinese like us to embrace and not let go of what we have inherited those culture from our Chinese ancestor even we live in modern society and time.
Can you forget your British cultural heritage and embrace the beautiful cultural heritage of the Australian Natives? Did you use the native tongue to be the Australia national language???
Write a Comment
CAPTCHA Code Image
Type in image code
Change the code
 Receive China Post promos
 Respond to this email
Subscribe  |   Advertise  |   RSS Feed  |   About Us  |   Career  |   Contact Us
Sitemap  |   Top Stories  |   Taiwan  |   China  |   Business  |   Asia  |   World  |   Sports  |   Life  |   Arts & Leisure  |   Health  |   Editorial  |   Commentary
Travel  |   Movies  |   TV Listings  |   Classifieds  |   Bookstore  |   Getting Around  |   Weather  |   Guide Post  |   Student Post  |   Terms of Use  |   Sitemap
  chinapost search