Taiwan insists on ‘Chinese Taipei’

I don't understand why they aren't just called "Taiwan."

Politics entering sports world, its hell of a game.

Because THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA WILL RISE AGAIN!

Because China will be humiliated if they lose to a country called TAIWAN.

These stubborn, die-hard separatists/secessionists!

They speak Chinese or Min Nan Hua (both Chinese), have Chinese names, write in Chinese and THEY ARE NOT CHINESE?

Because the so called "Taiwan" is not a country, it is rightfully part of China.

CHINESE REUNIFICATION IS THE ANSWER.

Again, "Taiwan" is NOT A COUNTRY. NOR WILL IT EVER BE. IT IS RIGHTFULLY PART OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA, or just, CHINA.

Please! The REAL Taiwanese are the natives. The CHINESE people who live there now are only there because they ran away from China, due to the fact that they can't accept that they lost the Chinese Civil War. They're ALL CHINESE. ETHNICALLY AND FOREVER WILL BE, *CHINESE*.

White Australians, Americans and Canadians were ethically British and u don’t see UK complaining about anything. Chinese-Taiwanese people ran away from the mainland for many reasons ......to escape communism, have freedom of speech and enjoy human rights. We moved away from the Mainland, and chose to live a new life. So leave us alone u communist freaks!!!!!!!!!!! Leave everything as it is, so we can get on with our lives.

The word "Chinese" itself is a confusing term to use. It can be used to describe a group of people with the similar ethnic background or it can be used to describe the citizens of Peoples Republic of China. If people with the same ethnic background should be grouped into one country, then does that means Singapore (a country where 70% of its population are Chinese-speaking citizens) must lose its independence and be incorporated into China?

Second point, the people who went to Taiwan after the civil war only make up a small percentage of Taiwan’s population. So why should this be a reason to incorporate Taiwan into China?

Ignore all westen enemies' words.
we are the Chinese FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Taiwanese is NOT fkg. Chinese.

Still then, the Chinese are uncapable, ignorant, stupid enough to face this situation, they're MF.

Uneducated Chinese on a barbarian China.

We don't mix with MONKEY Chinese, after all we're TAIWANESE

Americans speak English, have English names, write in English and THEY ARE NOT ENGLISH!

WHO the f. told you we're Chinese???

chinese is from china, and all the things that made in china are RUBBISH.

English people speak, write and have names in English therefore they are US? Same with Spanish speaking countries. How dumb can that be? so is yours THEY ARE NOT CHINESE?

ru sure Chinese people want to reunify or China government does? Look at China legal systems who can stop China government becoming another North Korean country - No one but Communist party. What are your rights if you ever have had any disputes with local authorities? Nothing!

This is a childish way to think about the sovereignty of a nation.

What about the US they speak English, does that mean the country is England? Canada speaks both English and French. Does that make it both England and France?
Mexico speaks Spanish, does that mean it is Spain?
Brazil speaks Spanish is it Spain?
South Africans speak English, does that mean it is England?
Australians speaks English, does that mean they are England?

That is just silly. In the first place forever is a very long time. Just look at Rome. There is no country named Rome anymore, right?

Times change. Ethnically the original People of the US were English. I ask you, do you think England when you hear the words USA? How about Mexico. It was once part of Spain and it's founders were Spaniards. Do you think "Spain" when you hear somebody say Mexico.

China seems to be the only country in the world that seems to hold onto outdated ideas of imperialism.
But if they truly want to be considered modern they will have to give up these ideas.

@macgeorge
Rome become the capital city of Italy.

Before USA was born. The USA original natives are the Red Indians. Until a Spanish name Columbus(served to the Portugal King) discover's America. Not England. The majority of the English settlers are criminals who were extradited to the America continents. It includes Australia and New Zealand.

Under the law of the Spanish monarch, the Monarch had given the authority and power to the conquistador's and the Spanish Friar's to conquer the world's and whose land's they conquer will belong to them. But they should remit certain amounts of their wealth to the Spanish Monarch. The continents include South America and some parts of Asia and Africa.

Taiwan is R.0.CHINA. While the Mainland is P.R.O.CHINA, both sides are CHINESE.

All the Chinese people even the Foreigners have adopted the teaching of Confucius who lives in ancient time from 551 BC to 479 BC.

Is Confucian Teaching "Modern or Ancient" idea needed to be Modernized???

@carltanong

I don't know how anyone can take your error strewn post seriously.

1. Columbus was Italian, not a Spaniard.
2. Columbus was in the service of the Spanish crown, not the Portuguese.
3. The majority of English settlers in North America were NOT criminals -- just those in the southernmost colony of Georgia. Those in other colonies left England voluntarily for other reasons, including to escape religious persecution in England.
4. Actually, it was the Treaty of Tordasillas that adopted a line dictated by the Pope that gave Portugal or Spain authority over the entire world, depending on which side of the line we are talking about.
5. Does the Republic of China have a legal basis for assumption of sovereignty over Taiwan? It takes a treaty to transfer sovereignty from one state to another. There is no transfer explicit in the Peace Treaty of San Francisco.
6. The people of the two countries are ethnically and linguistically Chinese (though Mandarin was FORCED on Taiwan by the Chinese Nationalist Party), that doesn't mean Taiwan is a part of China.
7. So, people are influenced by Confucian culture, that makes them Chinese? Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese and others also are influenced by his teachings. Does the fact that many Western European societies in addition to the US are influenced by Greek and Roman philosophers make them Greek or Roman?

Please spare us your childish, ignorant, sino-centric claptrap. That might work in China and with hard-core brainwashed Blues, but for people with a critical mind, it simply does not wash.

Happy New Year.

Until the PRC flag flies in Taiwan (which is NEVER has and NEVER will!) that is just stupid pipedream from the communists.

You want reunification? Sure, wait until the CCP dies the death it deserves, let democracy reign in China, then we'll talk about it!

Actually, China pressured the Olympic Council to avoid referring to this de facto independent nation as Taiwan because China doesn't want to lose face on the fact that it is neither powerful nor influential enough to take control of an island nation it so desperately wants under its control. Saving face doesn't change reality, however.

Honestly, the Taiwanese should be allowed to call themselves what they want. They already have their own government, military, economic system, education system and transportation system, along with a defined population and defined borders. The government of China (the PRC) has NEVER controlled Taiwan and likely never will. It's flag has never flown over Taiwanese soil.

If you think ethnicity is a valid refutation of Taiwan's de facto independence from China, you do not understand politics. Governments do not define cultures, and neither do cultures define governments. The simple fact of the matter is, Taiwan is a completely separate political entity from China, and matters will likely remain this way for many years to come, no matter what name China, or any country for that matter, uses to refer to Taiwan.

carltanong@
Did you get your history from a P.R.O. China history book or did you just make up the stupidest story you could think of and post it? Now that you've completely discredited yourself, in the future I will read your posts for a good laugh.

@ludahai_twn
1-You are right. (I am in the state of hangover in the celebrations of the CNY AND VALENTINES DAY, I conceded my mistake)
2-You are right. (Alcohol and Celebrations cause human error. Including me)
3-This time you’re wrong. The majority are convicted criminals, some are adventurists and some are opportunists.
4-You are wrong. Though the treaty, existed the event that transpired is that the Spanish Conquistador and the Spanish Friar claimed the land they conquered as theirs own.
5-You are wrong. The Treaty of San Francisco was a controversial treaty being drafted and the text was prepared by the United States and United Kingdom only. "BURMA, INDIA, YUGOSLAVIA, ITALY and both the R.O.C and P.R.O.C were not invited. Of the 52 participating countries, 49 signed the treaty. The SOVIET UNION headed by "Kromyko" PROTESTED THE CONTROVESIAL TREATY. Kromyko did not sign the TOSF.
The R.O.China and Japan have drafted the TREATY OF PEACE and signed on August 05,1952 in TAIPEI.
6-You are wrong. No political party whatsoever can force her ethnic citizens to speak any language. Any Chinese ethnic group can speak their own dialect and can speak Mandarin as the national language. Likewise President Obama, Red Indians, Hawaiians, Alaskans, Guamese and other White and Black Americans speak English as national languages of America aside from their own dialects of origin.
7-Did I say that Confucian culture can influence people to be Chinese???

Belated KUNG HEI FAT CHOI and HAPPY VALENTINE'S to you and your family.

But the land of America never belongs to UK. Taiwan is a part of the mainland China. Your view is not correct.
The point is that no matter who is living in Taiwan, what language they speak, the physical land belongs to China. It is a part of the map of China.

cigars898
Are you so sure that I had discredited myself? Do you think you will have the opportunity in the future to laugh at me?
You should see your own face in front of your own mirror first whether you can underestimated my post here in TAIWAN CHINA POST from the present into the future. Just wait and see if your dreams will come true.

Taiwan is part of China.

@calrtanong:
You're thinking of Australia, not America. America was colonized by people largely for economic and religious reasons along with forced colonization through slavery. Australia was the penal colony.

1,2 -> Another argument to stay away from the alcohol --- though I must admit to imbibing in some Jinmen Kaoliang during the holiday. :)
3-> Again, you are displaying a lack of knowledge of colonial America. The vast majority of colonists left England for the colonies for better economic and/or religious opportunity. Many even went deep into debt and had to serve (often) seven years as indentured servants to pay for their passage. A small percentage were criminals -- sent mostly to the southern-most border colony of Georgia.
4- Conquistadors had the authority to conquer on behalf of the Spanish crown based on authority granted to Spain by the pope. However, Friars did not conquer, or even rule. In fact, Friars and other Churchmen often got in the hairs of the Conquistadors by opposing many of their excesses. In fact, the commentaries of Catholic Scholastics in the 15th century in Spain formed much of the basis for modern international humanitarian law. Still, this is quite irrelevant to your point, and in fact, strengthens mine because although those areas used to be under Spanish control, they are no longer so, something recognized by the international community.
5 - The Peace Treaty of SF is only controversial in China and among pro-China Blues in Taiwan. Burma and India were not invited because they were not independent states during the war. Italy was not invited because it started the war as an Axis power. The USSR protested it only because the PRC was not present. Still, Japan was the de jure sovereign of Taiwan when the Peace Treaty of San Francisco was signed, ratified, and held it until it went into effect. Once it went into effect, Japan no longer had de jure sovereignty over Taiwan. It thus lost any and all legal rights to make any further assignment of sovereignty over the territory. As the Taipei Treaty was ratified and took effect AFTER the San Francisco treaty did, it has no effect in regards to Taiwan. Furthermore, even in the Taipei treaty, there is no specific transfer of sovereignty from Japan to China, so even if it DID have legal effect in regards to Taiwan, there is still no mechanism of transfer.

6- You have absolutely no knowledge of Taiwan's history to make this statement. Mandarin was FORCED on the people of Taiwan. Schoolchildren were punished for speaking Taiwanese on the playground or in the classroom. All government services were provided in Mandarin. Couldn't speak it? Too bad. Your statement is completely ignorant of this history of Taiwan during the days of the White Terror and martial law.

7 - No, but you implied it given the topic of the conversation.

ludahai_twn
1-2 Yes. You are absolutely right. I lost my arguments. What ever you say. I accepted it.

Now, let’s continue our argument's from 3-7. No hard feelings. No hatred between both of us.

#3- Who is the first Englishman settlers in America? When? Where is the location? How many went with him? And how did these first English settlers meet their own fate and died?

If you can’t answer it correctly. Then my #3 was right.

Then we proceed to #4.

@skylarjone
You just fasten your seat belt and stay calm. I've posted last night a question and answer to ludahai_twn. If he responds incorrectly, I will answer the question myself with truth nothing but the truth about history. Everybody have the right to know. Sometimes, information was RAW and history likewise.

Looks like it's a sensational showdown between Ludahai and Carltanong.

SCORE.
Ludahai =2 "historian".
Carltanong=0 "drunkard".

@carltanong
Roanoke, Virginia. Financed and organized by Sir Walter Raleigh with a charter given him by Queen Elizabeth I. None of the settlers were (to my knowledge) criminals. It was a purely economic venture.

@carltanong
Oh, and most of the men sent to colonize Roanoke by Raleigh were soldiers, not criminals.

#3 - you are now moving the goalposts. Your statement on 2/15 was, "The majority of the English settlers are criminals who were extradited to the America continents." Now, you are trying to change it to only refer to the first colony.

The first British colony in North America was the Roanoke Colony in present-day North Carolina in 1586. The settlers were volunteers, mainly soldiers, and all men. The settlement was abandoned the following year. A second attempt was made to settle the colony, again, people who volunteered to go. They were not criminals. The colony also disappeared after three years of lost contact due to war with Spain.

The first successful colony was Jamestown in 1607. The Raison d'etre for the colony was to make money in the gold trade and for religious freedom.

Popham Colony in present-day Maine was also settled in 1607. It was also a failure. Its members were made up largely of traders.

I could go on and on. Anyone who knows about the English settlement of the Thirteen colonies knows that the overwhelming majority of settlers went for either religious freedom or economic opportunities.

@ludahai_twn
Pls refer to your statement #5 of Feb 18.

The following countries who signed the Treaty of San Francisco were invited. BUT they were not INDEPENDENT STATES during the war.

COUNTRY INDEPENDENT DATE
CAMBODIA NOVEMBER 09, 1953
INDONESIA AUGUST 17, 1945
LAOS JULY 19, 1949
PAKISTAN AUGUST 14, 1947

(INDIA AUGUST 15, 1947)-

Now, could you deny again that this TOSF was NOT CONTROVESIAL?

#6 and #7. Your statements are absolutely IRRATIONAL and IRRESOLUTE.

If you can't respond to #3, just say so and I will answer vividly for you with #4.

HAPPY WEEKEND.

I DID answer number 3,.

The SFPT is NOT regarded as overly controversial, never really was outside China, Taiwan and the USSR. The China representation problem was due largely to the fact that some states recognized Beijing while others recognized Taipei. It doesn't change the fact that according to international law, Japan has the right to choose who it signs the treaty with. The fact that some countries were not invited makes absolutely no difference in international law. Neither the PRC nor ROC had any legal standing in the matter. Also, both Burma and India were invited to the treaty negotiations and to sign it, but both VOLUNTARILY declined!

@ludahai_twn
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE FIRST ENGLISH SETTLES IN AMERICA-

Part 1
1587- A colony of "about 123" English Men, Women and Children (NOT VOLUNTEERS, NOT MAINLY SOLDIERS AND NOT ALL MEN AS YOU SAY) was founded on ROANOKE ISLAND, VIRGINIA. Three years later their settlement had disappeared without trace. Now one historian believes that they were the victims of an English court CONSPIRACY, led by one of the most powerful men of the time.
JOHN WHITE- Is an English seafarer and artist. Is the primary source for piecing together the events that doomed the colony.
Sir WALTER RALEIGH- A favorite of England QUEEN ELIZABETH 1. The ROANOKE ISLAND was supposed to be named after him. But he was to finish up destitute, imprisoned and finally executed.

@ludahai_twn
FIRST ENGLISH SETTLERS IN AMERICA

Part 2-
JOHN WHITE- The tragedy was a personal one. He sailed back to England, leaving his daughter and new born granddaughter with the rest of the settlers on the tiny island. But it was to be 3 years before he could return because the threat of Spanish invasion that kept English ships in port( NOT WAR AS YOU SAY ). Trapping JOHN WHITE on the wrong side of the Atlantic.
1590 Sir WALTER RALEIGH- Persuade QUEEN ELIZABETH to allow his relief ship to set sail.
JOHN WHITE- When he reached the treacherous shallows that guarded the ROANOKE ISLAND. His hope vanished. The settlements deserted. The only single clue to the settlers FATE was a lone word carved into a wooden stake "CROATOAN".
Historians argue that they may have been pawns sacrificed as part of an English CONSPIRACY that permeated in the HIGHEST ECHELON of power.

@ludahai_twn
FIRST ENGLISH SETTLERS IN AMERICA

CONCLUSION:
VILLAIN'S INVOLVE IN THE UNTOLD CONSPIRACY.

SIMON FERNANDEZ- Portuguese navigator was a former PIRATES turn investor in the expedition. Why he abandon the colonists? The answer lay across the court of QUEEN ELIZABETH 1.
Sir FRANCIS WALSINGHAM, ROBERT DEVEREUX ( EARL OF ESSEX) and ROBERT CECIL- CONSPIRE and CONVINCE the new KING JAMES 1 of RALEIGH'S disloyalty, and RALEIGH was tried for TREASON and IMPRISONED in the TOWER OF LONDON in 1606.
ROBERT CECIL, Atty General Sir EDWARD COKE and Chief Justice POPHAM soon after acquired all the land title of RALEIGH'S.

THE UNCOVERING OF THE CONSPIRACY INSIDE THE COURT OF THE QUEEN AND KING OF ENGLAND CAN PROVED THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE SETTLER'S IN THE NEXT EXPEDITION WAS CRIMINAL'S,

BELIEVE IT OR NOT DEPEND ON YOUR OWN WISDOM.

February 21, 2010-12.23 am
carltanong

@carltanong

6 - Then you know absolutely nothing about history. History is replete with examples of governments/conquerors forcing their languages on conquered populations. The Romans did it ... so did the Incas and the French, the Indonesians have done it... the list goes on and on. In Taiwan, if you spoke Taiwanese on school grounds, even on the playground during recess time, you could be punished, EVEN FINED by teachers at the school and forced to war humiliating signs around your neck. Ask any Taiwanese speaking person who went to school during the 60s and 70s. I have not only heard this from my wife, but also from innumerable people over the years. When I was a child, I was allowed to speak French with my fellow French-speakers on the playground despite the fact that I was growing up in an English-speaking country with class conducted in English. This was NOT the case in Taiwan during much of the time of the White Terror. Your denial of this is yet another example of how you are out of touch with reality.

#7 - you obviously have no idea what the term "implied context" means. My ninth grade literature students have a better idea of context than you apparently do.

#5 for carltanong the drunkard.

SCORE
Lutahai=2 (historian)
Carltanong=1 (drunkard)

@skylarjones
Thanks for your concern. I have already posted this early morning in China Post. Just wait. It will be published soon. Sorry to reply to your concern only now.

#3 goes for carltanong the drunkard.
VERY CONVINCING.

SCORE
Ludahai=2(historian)
Carltanong=2(drunkard)

Ludahai. You are falling into the trap being set up by carltanong.
Your #6 and #7 are inconsistent from your previous arguments.

Looks like this drunkard is setting up "lure the rats with a piece of cheese inside the rat trap".

Your first mistake is regarding the 1587 colony as the first settlement of Roanoke. This is incorrect. The first colony was planted in 1586 (departed England in 1585). That colony was, in fact, consisted of men. You are mixing up your Roanoke colonies. The 1587 was the SECOND, not first, Roanoke colony. This second colony DID include women and children.

How do you figure? I answered his only rather feeble objections. Only someone with a complete lack of knowledge about international law could actually buy his argument.

USA/Australia or Canada is very far from UK while. However, they still maintain good diplomatic relationships despite of decades of independence and distance.

Ironically, it is not fair to take Ireland into account where British is close proximity by geographic location. Taiwan is very close to China and experiencing the same treatment.

It is impossible for Taiwan to claim its identity without bloody confrontation. A man without name. I wish Taiwan is far from China.

However, we are still enjoying much freedom and strong sense of patriotism than any nation.

I am proud to be Chinese Taipei.

You should perhaps away for rebuttals before making judgments. You are erroneous on both #3 and #5 because his facts are wrong. He wasn't even talking about the first colony and he moved the goal posts. I think you are the kind of ref who would have missed Tierry's handball because you would have had a Les Bleu jersey under the official's jersey. lol

@ludahai_twn(Feb 22).
Please read carefully what I posted on February 20, 2010
My Titles was written crystal clear as...
"THE TRUTH ABOUT THE FIRST ENGLISH SETTLES IN AMERICA"
1587-
Part 1
"JOHN WHITE- FIRST ENGLISH (ENGLISHMEN)"...
Sir WALTER RALEIGH'S...
Part 2
FIRST ENGLISH SETTLES IN AMERICA
JOHN WHITE-THE ENGLISHMEN whose NAME APPEAR AGAIN... so do
Sir WALTER RALEIGH'S...
The last part again it appear'
FIRST ENGLISH SETTLES 1N AMERICA
CONCLUSION
...
...

AND ALSO PLEASE READ MY QUESTION CAREFULLY ON FEBRUARY 18.

CONCEDE AND RETURN MY POINT AS A GENTLEMAN so we can proceed #4 #6 and #7.

ludahai. Your's arguments keep on revising from #6 #7 and now #3 without self consciousness in arguments and lack of decisive on your part is what the drunkard expectation. Written arguments are like affidavits, which are prohibited to revise with erasure. If you do, all yours arguments are considered fraudulent.

Why do people bother with this senseless debate? The government of the ROC as elected by the people ultimately decide whether the country is Taiwan or ROC.

Whether the blog is senseless or useless, it draws some nerve out of everyone. Freedom of Speech or Expression perhaps?

The China Post blog is the most exciting blog that I've visited. More power to all of you and China Post.

Thanks, lourdez@.... and to the rest of you. I do enjoy blogging here. However, not all my blogs are posted.

FY, chinese!!!

@dpp4sale
Next time please write with decent words online. Tell you a secret. Heehee. My wife saw your posting with your 2 capital letters "FY,chinese!!!" and ask what it meant. I said 'F means Fantastic and Y means Year'. Fantastic Year for all Chinese in the year of the TIGER. But she says the Dragon Tiger Year is much better for the Chinese. So she writes in Chinese in her laptop and emailed her friend. It read "美玲，今年我們中國人應該慶祝福賀”龍虎年”，Huh!!!

First of all, Taiwan is Taiwan, it is an independent country. We all know that China wants to swallow Taiwan in any time. As Taiwan is so economic, democratic, and many things sound. Sadly, Hong Kong has back to China now, so we don't want a second scenario similar to this happen. Any countries who are righteous should help protect the nation being bullied by a too big nation like China. With regards! Personally I’m not against any countries, and no racism here.. Any racist idea shows that they are dumb and stupid. Thank you!

Thanks to the Western colonialist for the problem of feuding brothers and feuding sisters. And Imperial Japan for conquering China's Taiwan with the bigger intent of conquering all of China.