Sorrow of being Taiwanese

It’s not hard to explain why we feel no major grievances towards the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, or Japanese: They no longer threaten Taiwan’s governance, languages, or culture, and they generally support Taiwan’s republican system. Certainly there are still conflicts and unforgotten transgressions, but they’re comparatively minor.

The most common description of Japanese rule that I’ve heard from my grandparents’ generation is “bad, though not as bad as what followed.” But that was largely forgiven due to Japan’s change in attitude towards Taiwan after WWII. China’s attitude, and yours, have not changed, so the mistrust remains.

Your nationalist xenophobic rhetoric to try to kickstart a new pan-chinese identity is outdated and quite pathetic. Taiwan's youngsters are as much in or out of touch with reality as are youngsters elsewhere. They are also pragmatic: Unfriendly nations are those whose missiles are pointed at you. Full stop.

WTF Japanese coast guard officials spitting at, slapping and shouting racial comments? Where did this information come from? Reading newspapers on a daily basis, this is the first I have heard of these inflammatory accusations against Japanese officials. Extremely irresponsible writing, unless the writer can substantiate such assertions.

Wow. Mr. Han sure has a hate on against Mr. Nippon...

If the writer considers himself such a patriotic Han Chinese, doesn't he feel anything towards the 30 million countrymen killed during the Cultural Revolution? And is he not acutely aware that the repression of his countrymen continue on a daily basis throughout his beloved motherland? And doesn't he (or she) have the brains to figure out that the 83% of these students kind of figured out the above information and therefore will continue to have a huge level of mistrust towards China?

======= To the editor, ========
A well put article!
Sorrow are those who forget (or rather disown) their root, their heritage and their identities. As a Chinese I am sadden that the young generation of so called Taiwanese are brain washed to the point that they don’t know where their ancestors came from and they are speaking and writing Chinese!

======== To the author of previous comment ====
What makes you think that what the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, or Japanese did to Chinese in Taiwan was comparatively minor? Compared to what?

While one should forgive what happened in the past one should not forget history. If you forgive the things that the colonists did to your grandparents then what is the problem of forgiving China's past attitudes to Taiwan? If you are one of those who think that you are NOT Chinese then perhaps you should consider to learn a new language and use it, don’t use Chinese language in your everyday life!
Whatever you may think, Taiwan is a part of China and that will never change!
To make it clear, I am not a Chinese from China but I don’t deny my root and who I am.

Why open those past wounds, while everything is forgiven and forgotten?

Narrow-mindedness and insularity contribute to and deepen the mistrust DPP sowed among the ignorant islanders.

Lee Teng-hui is neither a Taiwanese Aborigines nor Taiwanese Chinese. Lee is a Nipponese. Lee might be miserable sad with sorrow that Taiwan belong to all the Chinese now and not under the Japanese. Lee should spoke "This is my great sorrow that Taiwan was back to the arm of R.0.C."

To csempere109. Your statements are full of nonsense without any basis of truth to support your arguments. My great uncle volunteered to join the Chinese army and died gallantly with his school mate against the Fanatical and ruthless Japanese aggressors.

Lee. We Chinese whether from mainland or in Taiwan will never forget "Chong Guo ren de bei ai" under the Japanese Rule.

Lee. The Flag of REPUBLIC OF CHINA was STAINED with the FLESH and BLOOD of all Chinese.

This just goes to show how the current sad state of affairs in Taiwan is a direct product of the politics and the media. Politicians are so busy going after each others throats that they fail to see the threat from the outside. And what's even worse, the media, a source of primary education for many young and old, keeps reporting this garbage while failing to highlight the more important things.

If this editorial was simply trying to say “remember your painful past, learn from it and do not ever ignore it”, it could be done in one brief paragraph.

What this lengthy editorial really says is “Your ethnically diverse neighbors are still your enemies. Don’t forgive them. Chinese on both sides of the Strait, Unite! And if necessary let’s kick their a***s”.

This has a name: fascism, Taiwan’s real sorrow.

Uh, Taiwan has a military, doesn't it? And what is the one specific reason why Taiwan has to maintain such a military? Fear of mandatory usage of wooden clogs from Holland? Fear of Fois Gras replacing Stinky Tofu in the night markets? Fear of forced viewings of bullfights? Because guns are cool?

Or fear of a regime with a vast and expanding military that was originally instituted to force residents of Taiwan into submission? ...by continuing to STAIN the Flag of the REPUBLIC OF CHINA with the FLESH and BLOOD of all Taiwanese.

It's kind of a no-brainer to the 83% of these "clueless" students.

linkvirtual@'s comment is well said. There are so many Chinese in every corner of the world who feel proud being called and known as Chinese even at the time China was very poor and in the state of anarchy. Japanese are nice people after 2nd world war. Nothing wrong with being friends and living with them but when they are your colonial masters? Please ask your father and mother. Mother especially. If your father and mother were slaughtered by them and if you have your grand parents ask them. For reference, Japan conquered Korea in 1904 which was known as Chosun - a protectorate state of China. In 1933 Japan conquered China 3 North Eastern Province called Manchuria. From there marching southwards down to as far as Nanking. Took part of Shanghai. Occupied Taiwan Island in 1895. During the later years of Ching dynasty, China territories were lost to French in IndoChina (called Ann Nam then) now consisting of Vietnam, Laos, Kumpucha, Shantung Peninsula to Germany, Macau to Portugal, Hong Kong to Britain and Shanghai was cut out by 4 foreign nations. Dr. Sun Yat San seeing such happenings organised a rebellion. At that time Ching dynasty mandated 8 households to share 1 kitchen knife. Dr. Sun was innovative. In mid-Autumn he sent messages by way of putting it in the mooncake during the day of full moon. That was when the revolution started and a new China was born.

Taiwanese, where are your ancestors from other than Lee Teng Hui?

rex.
Why does Japan want to revise its own Japanese History Book to conceal its own atrocity against the Chinese and other Asian people? Why did the Japanese build and let their war criminals rest in Yasukuni Shrine?

The Germans and the Italians have no such Shrine to commemorate their war criminals.

The article & comments shows the generational gap in Taiwan. I am an American who has lived in Taiwan many years and I often see that the Taiwanese under 35 have much more in common with Japanese under 35 than they do with Mainland Chinese, especially the Taiwanese studying in America. They often like making Japanese friends instead of Mainland friends. Also, I am surprised to hear my Taiwanese friends (with parents from mainland China) try to say they are Chinese not Taiwanese. I am surprised because they have never lived in China and cannot comprehend how different life is in the mainland. They cannot understand the darkness the power of "relationships" brings to life in China. I hope all old and young Taiwanese people understand they have created a strong country together. Don't let China have more control because of economic fear. Be strong Taiwan!!

Editorial of China Post in Taiwan on "Sorrow of Taiwanese".

This is an honest and frank editorial from China Post. I think the isolation of Taiwanese imposed by the previous government in Taiwan has something to do with the different but ridiculously hilarious mindset of younger Taiwanese from the Chinese people world wide and not just in China. Such mindset will alienate them from the rest of Chinese people and that will create a repercussion on them. In fact, most descendent of Chinese immigrants in the west are also isolated from the Chinese culture etc in the past before poor, weak and sleepy China woke up from hibernation. However unlike those in Taiwan, the new generation of overseas Chinese are re-connecting with fellow Chinese as they want to learn more about themselves and their Chinese value and language. They are well integrated with fellow Chinese proudly and happily to learn Mandarin like my own son does. As more mainland Chinese travel overseas to study to work and do business, they also provide a conduit for overseas Chinese to regain lost links with Chinese culture and heritage. In fact, many younger Chinese are very keen to explore the home of their ancestors and proud to be descendants of Chinese.

I visited China a few times and after having visiting several museums and talking to people from all walks of life, I became even more proud being a Chinese.

Of course there are some Chinese who want to disown their Chinese heritage and that is fine as long as they don't rubbish Chinese heritage and culture and their ancestry. I personally despise those who despise and disown their ancestry for whatever reasons. Unfortunately that is just my human nature, I find it hard to associate myself with those who want to discard their ancestry and heritage. I will certainly want to know what Taiwanese I am dealing with if I do meet them. I hope they will identify themselves and not hide their new self made non-Chinese identity when meeting true Chinese people who have desire to have anything to do with them. I will not be surprise if they try to hide their non-Chinese identity to suite themselves for they have shown they have no self respect.

I hope True Chinese Taiwanese will display themselves to make it easy for fellow Chinese tourists, business people to avoid mistakenly walking into those non-Chinese Taiwanese shops for shopping or business. Perhaps I should make such suggestion to tour companies in Taiwan.

I suggest that to make it easy for Taiwanese who don't wish to be Chinese to identify themselves when they are traveling outside Taiwan. How about wearing a hat with non-Chinese Taiwanese label clearly shown. I also suggest these people should also develop their own language and culture if they want to be non-Chinese. True Chinese will not be pleased if they use our Chinese culture.

One of the many hundred of Millions True Chinese not just in China, Taiwan but SE Asia and the rest of the world.

I am a European so it is not up to me to say if Lee is Taiwanese or Chinese or some combination of the two. One thing you can learn from Europe is that you cannot press the identity on others. The British could not make the Irish British, the Germans could not make the the Austrians German, the Spanish could not kill the Catalonian language and spirit. China should accept that the Taiwanese are of a different sort than those on the mainland.

Are u f***king kidding me?! Taiwan's military is a little gnat to the PLA. Just one Chinese missile flies over and u and I can kiss our asses goodbye. And please....expanding military to confront Taiwan? The mainland could have overran Taiwan ages ago if they wanted to if not for the Americans. They have a lot more global concerns nowadays that are on their agenda than being worried about Taiwan's negligible military force, hence their expanding military. Talk about having your head in you’re a**. Wake the f**k up already.

@brakmam
I am a Chinese so it is not up to me to say if HITLER is Austrian or German. One thing you should learn from the Chinese is that we Chinese from both sides are brothers and sisters. We want peace and harmony. European can't dictate and press any Chinese to disintegrate our own country similar to the former European country YUGOSLAVIA. We know how the Argentinians lost FALKLAND to the British. We also know IRELAND was divided by the British. Should we Chinese learn from Europe? Definitely NOT. Europe should accept that Chinese is Chinese that can't be manipulated by outsiders.

Stop milking your Western European bad characteristics and influence and lessons to not only the Chinese people but also other nations on the way to self conflict. Your Western European lesson is evil and creates bloodshed in other nations.

WTF. Your mind is too hazy to remember that encounter by the Taiwanese fishermen. You are really a NUT. That incident was IGNORED by the Western and Japanese media!

Brakmarn has it dead on. Just like the decisively split politics of Taiwan, so will remain the split between "Chinese" and "Taiwanese" in Taiwan.

And, as long as Taiwan can remain democratic, the fate of all rests with the majority. Whatever the outcome, there will be a huge percentage of the population who will be terribly unhappy.

Can't wait to see the protests on this thorny issue!

Dear all:
What's needed by all sides is correct information. For example, some say the Hans first settled on Taiwan during the Ming dynasty but, of course, Taiwan island being so near to the mainland, it must've taken place much earlier than even the Sui dynasty (581 - 618 AD), when Hans were officially encouraged to live on the island. Further, one can say the aborigines were not Hans, but they nevertheless were one of China's minority peoples.

BTW, the first inhabitants of the Japanese were the Ainus. So who were the Japanese if they were not from the Chinese mainland, with eyelids similar to most Southern Chinese? Historically, the Japanese had always been proud of their Chinese-ness until the West came with their guns and massive propaganda machine. Why else would the Japanese adopt the Chinese script, use silk, imitate the tea ceremony, etc???

The West has been very successful in their divide and rule strategy, having practiced that for over 500 years. When the Europeans invaded America, they divided the Indians into good Indians and bad Indians. Some "good" Indians, like LTH, even allied with the whites. But what happened? When the "bad Indians" were exterminated, the "good" ones became the next in line. Most informed people today know about the mopping up operations conducted against the Cherokees during the early 1800s, when the Indian Removal Act was passed by the American Congress. Now, the Cherokees were the LTH-type Hans today - they imitated the white man's ways, adopted the white man's religion, clothing, housing, and so on and so forth. But gold was reportedly found in their settlements in Georgia, so these Indians were forcibly uprooted from their homes to endure a thousand-mile march in what's known today as "The Trail of Tears." Thousands from this small remnant Indian tribe died during that terrible wintry march - the final solution of an extermination campaign that started with George Washington, a campaign that'd taken about 10 million Indian lives or over 90 percent of the Native American population. And this is the country that the "Tai Du" people admire so much so that they've, like the Cherokees, rejected and re-written their own heritage to be like their foreign idols.

Chinese all over the world, including Taiwan, must know their real enemies. It's by attacking Western imperialism, of which as Hannah Arendt noted, racism is part and parcel of, that the Chinese and other Asians will once again regain their self-respect. And when that happens, not only Chinese in Taiwan, but even the Japanese and Koreans and other Asians, would be proud of their common, largely Sino heritage.

Larry LC

The fact that Mandarin Chinese is spoken in Taiwan does not mean that the Taiwanese people are Chinese. Using that logic, all Americans are really English and half the population of Belgium is French and the other half Dutch.
China has no legitimate claim to Taiwan, if it had it wouldn't try and FAIL to intimidate the Taiwanese population with threats of war.
Respect to the Taiwanese.

When you travel the world ask any Chinese in any country of adoption. The answers are and always will be "I am a Chinese American, Chinese Singaporean, Chinese British, Chinese from India, Chinese from France, Chinese from Korea, I'm a Chinese from Xinjiang (I don't know about now but when I met a native Xinjiang in another country in 2007 I asked how is that you have Reminbi in hand to change to other currency, he replied that he is Chinese from Xinjiang. This is the truth and fact, no bluffing, spinning and twisting).

As for the European who offered his view of other race, I, for one, can say we Chinese (Most/majority) are different from Europeans. Maybe I can say we are somewhat like the Germans who broke down the Berlin Wall to ensure Germans are one and inseparable from other Europeans.

"It's by attacking Western imperialism, of which as Hannah Arendt noted, racism is part and parcel of, that the Chinese and other Asians will once again regain their self-respect"

Gaining self-respect by attacking western cultures is cowardice and the easy way out.

Taiwan's fascination with the West was/is/will be voluntary, not imposed, and a result from the islanders' pragmatism.

Retreating to an Iran-style xenophobic "death to western imperialism" is anachronistic and not the issue here. It's the Chinese themselves, not Europe, who were directly responsible for splitting Taiwan from China, unless one again - and cowardly - wants to dig up Europe's past and come up with the fact that communism and nationalism were also a Western invention. So was the first CPU, by the way, and I don't think any Taiwanese ever complained about that "imperialistic" invention. As a Taiwanese to tell the West to "give us the goods but to keep the unwanted packaging" far exceeds any imperialistic attitude.

I'm also a European. My forefathers have blood on their hands and have fought many dirty wars. But unlike some pseudo-philosophical couch potatoes above, we remembered past wrongdoings, learned from them and WE MOVE ON - without blaming any people, culture, or American imperialism.

Many Europeans have gained self-respect from silent suffering, tolerance and introspection, not from blaming others.

> we remembered past wrongdoings, learned from them and WE MOVE ON ]]

My, my! How wonderful to see someone talking about "moving on" when the world just recently saw the "shock and awe" in Iraq, the murder of over a million civilians in that small country and creating millions more in terms of internal refugees (partly because of the West's massacre at Fallajah). How self-congratulatory could one be at a time when depleted uranium particles are still giving cancers to the population there and who knows where. And isn't it especially hypocritical for Europeans to talk about "moving on" when Afghan and Pakistani civilians still die by the thousands monthly, all in the name of the "fight against terror"???

Taiwan's "fascination" (I wouldn't use that word for not all Taiwanese feel that way) with the West not imposed? We're not so forgetful as you and your kind would like - we know how the US 7th Fleet interfered with the Chinese Civil War, how successive US governments brainwashed generations of Chinese in Taiwan with their "educational" and "cultural" activities, and how cultural imperialism generally works in much of the non-Western world.

And please, don't talk about Iran's "xenophobic" whatever, not when the US and Britain fomented the riots that overthrew the legally-elected Mossadeq government and installed the bloodthirsty Shah, which in turn allowed Khomeini to return and turn that country into a theocracy.

Lastly, western imperialism should never be equated with Western peoples as a whole - Europeans or Americans had also suffered much from the antics of their imperialist ruling class. Why do you think so many millions of Americans struggled against the Vietnam War - a struggle that once saw the closure of hundreds of American colleges, the shooting at Kent and the deaths of so many "left" thinkers and activists, including not only Martin Luther King Jr. and the Black Panthers, but even John and Robert Kennedy? Why do you think millions of people from Europe and America and around the world marched against the Iraq Invasion, if not in protest against Imperialism?

From the invasion of the Philippines immediately after the Spanish-American War to the massacre of the Chejoo Koreans after WW2, from the killings and maiming of millions of peasants in the Vietnam War to the "shock and awe" of the illegal Iraq invasion, the pattern of world subjugation and cultural infiltration by Western imperialism has remained the same. The same imperialism that saw the extermination and self-hate among many surviving native Americans, Australian bushmen, and millions of other victims will not stop until the world sees it for what it is. Know the truth, and the truth will set you free. We must know that for the imperialists "soft power" is merely a prelude to hard or military power.

nice usage of the F word. Good gauge of intelligence.

Bite me

Oooh, but so accurately reported by exactly what media outlet? Xinhua?

Either the author is in denial or is not even worthy of writing his opinion. He has failed to mention the most obvious Taiwanese oppressor of recent time. The Kuomintang obviously relocated with brutal force on Taiwan after getting overthrown by the Communist Party. Looks like the Taiwanese were not the only one that disliked the KMT and their sorry ROC. All of a sudden the Chinese brought their baggage and it unfortunately became Taiwan's responsibility. Maybe the author should search "228" "white terror" "Chiang Kai Shek" on wikipedia for a short history 101 class. He should also consider why Taiwanese respect the Japanese more than the Chinese, even with all the lack of "respect" he claims. Is there a reason for this? I think so, maybe just maybe it is because we used our brains, compared the KMT with the Japanese, and favored one. This is a biased and poorly written editorial that is not convincing. Please do not attempt to tell us what the "Sorrow of being Taiwanese" is when you are not a Taiwanese. Go back to China if you wish.

What did the Portuguese, Spanish, and French do? The Portuguese gave Taiwan a beautiful name. Spain only had outposts in a limited area and the French won a war due to Chinese aggression elsewhere.

As for speaking Chinese making Taiwan part of China, does that make Singapore part of China? Americans speak English. Does that make the US part of England? Or the multitude of other English-speaking countries for that matter.

Linkvirtual's post is so simplistic and devoid of reality that it is hard to imagine anyone actually taking it seriously.

@renoirrr
"MOVE ON" as in now, recent decades, the new EU".
As you keep babbling about the US, it's obvious you've never even set foot in Europe. Move on yourself, please, by buying some updated books you get your facts from.

ludahai_twn. You are seriously ILL.

You should re-read the History of China again and repeat again in reading it and memorizing it.

Also I recommend that you seek an American Historian on how America from 13 states united themselves, then conquered and occupied other territories and created 50 state as they call their country United State of America.

As for Singapore, though the Chinese comprise about 80% of its population, neither the R.O.C. of Taiwan or P.R.O.C of the Mainland ever claimed Singapore as a part of China. Because the Chinese abide by the Chinese History that has written which territories belong to China. We Chinese from both sides are not a conqueror or occupier. We still lost some territory that should be recovered later on.

Who is more Chinese? The people who abandoned traditions and destroyed temples? The people who abandoned a beautifully written language? In these respects, the people in Taiwan are more traditional Chinese than the people in China.

This is a shamelessly cheap editorial that one would expect to find in "xinhua", not in a proud Taiwanese newspaper. I am disgusted.

-- Bushman

Part one

The most obvious oppressor of the Chinese was, of course, the English whose gunboats roamed Chinese seas and rivers for over a century and from which the expression "gunboat diplomacy" comes from. Weaken largely by British aggression, China was unable to withstand the subsequent Japanese aggression and thus had to cede Taiwan to Japan in the Treaty of Shimonoseki. This was an island that wasn't merely occupied by Hans for nearly 2000 years, but had through the course of history also been designated as part of Fujian province, which was another reason why the so-called "Taiwanese" language is actually the Hokkien dialect. Because of such historical facts, even the US had no choice but to recognize Taiwan as Chinese territory. Hence, in the Cairo Declaration, the contents of which included terms for the surrender of Japan, Americans and other Allied powers supported Taiwan's return to China. However, the US not merely accepted Taiwan as Chinese territory: to the shock of much of the Asia, it also endorsed the ROC as the government of ALL China! This was, however, corrected about 20 years later, when Nixon visited Beijing. During that visit, the US recognized that there was but one China, not one China and one Taiwan, and until today not a single American president, however rightwing, has supported Taiwan independence. This, to some extent, is indicative not only of America's realism, but also its - sometimes invisible - sense of fairness.

Part 2

An argument goes that while Taiwan might've been settled by the Hans during the Sui dynasty, and ruled as part of Fujian and sometimes as a province, it still has the right to declare independence. This kind of talk had been encouraged by some US hawks since the Nixon-Mao meeting, but tapered off until Bush Jr took over, when the neocons used the Taiwan issue to browbeat China into accepting America's Middle East policy. If not for Powell, the neocons might've managed to start a war over the Taiwan Straits.

Why war? Well, even before Lincoln was sworn in as President, about 7 southern states had declared independent. They could do so because the US Constitution did not expressly forbid secession. Lincoln recognized this, but argued that "THE UNION EXISTED BEFORE THE CONSTITUTION" and therefore could ignore it. Elsewhere, Lincoln also wrote that no country would ever willingly allow itself to be divided. Hence in today's pledge of allegiance Americans would mutter words such as "One Nation, under God, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all." Of course, many Blacks and Native Americans would argue about the "liberty and justice for all" part, but America would never tolerate any division of the US, even in newly-conquered territories such as Hawaii, which had been an independent kingdom before the founding of the United States. And if the US wouldn't tolerate division, neither should China.

I really appreciated this article. I agree with all of it. It proposes an idea of how things really are and it’s a great analogy. While reading it, it kind of reminded me of America and our current problem with cults like skinheads. They harp over Mexicans’ illegal migration into America, but do they have any idea that we are immigrants as well?　The Native Americans should be the angry ones, if any. It’s like this article. The native Taiwanese can call themselves Taiwanese (if I am asked where I live I say American of course, but when I am asked where I am from I say Germany because that is the majority of my decent), but I think for a Taiwanese citizen (whose ancestry’s origin is in China, they should be able to admit and accept they are Chinese. Even though I　am not proud of being associated with Hitler and the holocaust, I still consider myself German, and I will say that I am German because there’s nothing wrong with it. I don't understand all of the animosity towards being labeled as Chinese. China and the Chinese have a great legacy; why would anyone not want to be a part of that?

Also, for those of you that have never read in the paper of the Japanese being hostile towards Taiwanese fishing boats--just a few days ago I　read in the paper that the Japanese had seized fishermen and their boats for being in their so-called waters near one of Taiwan’s islands that is plentiful in oil and other resources. That seems really fishy if you ask me.

I'm not Chinese from China. I was born in Taiwan, but I spent all of 2 years of my life there. 2 years in South Africa and the rest in the USA.

As an American, I believe in the freedom of all democratic peoples to determine their own destiny.

It always amazes me how little the Chinese from China who now live in the USA understand what freedom and democracy really mean.

Do you mean that Quebec should be a part of the French Republic because it has been founded by French pioneers or USA a part of UK because it has been founded by English pioneers? The time of empires, and China is an Empire that is why people speak their own dialect plus mandarin, may be over, no matter if you do have the same ancestors. The European Union is not replacing the Roman Empire, but taking into account the fact that they indeed come from the same civilization, just as China, independent countries decide to peacefully re-create their unity based on mutual respect and acceptation of each nation's identity built by decades of specific history. Of course, the starting point is to acknowledge each independence, do not use or warn to use armed forces ... and last but not least, share same values and political regimes. It cannot be only a question of "race" or "language" in modern History... Though I can respect Taiwanese sincerely feeling Chinese, I must admit that I look down on such pseudo-historic-scientific demonstration which appears to be silly and only driven by racial motivations...

Citizenship can be obtained by choice. Even the European and American have altered their citizenship in their new adopted country. But nobody can change their own former country name because of the two words "Freedom" and "Democracy" in your new adopted country.

Every nation constitution, system of gov't and law are different from one another. So do your own house rule. Can you say your ancestor is White American? Black American etc etc? Not a Chinese? No. My friend. You have no such Freedom to abandon your own Chinese Ancestor.

I can't believe that this topic has people arguing over who is Taiwanese and who is Chinese. I really believe that some people would even fight to the death over their views on this.

Let's all interbreed and make beige babies for the next 20 generations, thoroughly destroy any records of ancestry, and find something else to argue about, dispute and kill each other over.

GOD I wish people would mature as a species long enough to figure out that we're all human regardless of race or nationality. We're all here together for better or worse. Learn to play nicely! Why the hell is that such an impossibility for humans?!

Money, politics, race and religion.

Should be called the 4 roots of all evil.

Let me let you in on a secret. I and my family self identify as Shanghainese.

You know what? My family wasn't originally from Shanghai. In fact, Shanghai has existed for only less than 200 years.

I was born in Taiwan. I self identify as a Chinese person. But if someone else who was born in Taiwan wants to self identify as Taiwanese, who am I to tell them different?

They have the freedom to do so. And the democracy to make it so if that's what the people want.

As an American Chinese I am neutral on the China-Taiwan relations. For Taiwanese to say that they are not Chinese is unbelievable. Just like I am saying that I am American but not Chinese. I am proud of being both - American & Chinese. Most Taiwanese are misinformed about China & Chinese. We oversea Chinese are proud of Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao and China. We often tell our American friends of the unbelievable achievements they have accomplished in the decades past.

Taiwanese youths' opinions of China, Japan, etc. are reflection of their history education & years of propaganda by their politicians - DDP's sole purpose of existence is China bashing. Without China hating DDP has no purpose. It is so convenience to blame everything on China during each political campaign. It buys votes. Chen Shui-bian and Lee Teng-hui perfected the China hating slogan - everything Chinese is “bad” and everything Japanese is “good”.

Until Taiwanese youths learned of the true history of China and Japan their opinion/feeling of the two countries will not change.

In the long run China and Taiwan’s interests are parallel. A great society can be created when China and Taiwan learn to live together and complement each other. It is time for Taiwanese to also call themselves Chinese. I am an American, Virginian (I live in the US State of Virginia which we call the Commonwealth of Virginia, attended the University of Virginia) but also proudly call myself Chinese.

History is one thing, but reality is better: Taiwan does not need to declare independence, as it is independent, someone said. Something you called indivisible is already divided. Many Taiwanese don't like the DPP strategy of confrontation as there is no added value for the people, however, the same amount don't see any added value either to be ruled by Beijing. Like the Swiss, which don't want to be ruled by Brussels. I agree with the author that the result of the poll has the root cause that young people don't care about history, which is good, but I do disagree that Taiwanese have a lack of self-respect, they simply don't respect the super-power Mainland China.

In a sense, China was the most democratic of all ancient civilizations partly because of the Confucian idea of harmony in diversity. The idea that "within the four seas all men are brothers" could be traced back to at least 2,500 years. Unlike imperialist nations China has allowed all its dialects to flourish: it was enough for the Chinese people to share their common script - a practice that had been in place for over 2,000 years. Western nations, on the other hand, had always imposed their language and culture on their victims both internally and externally. Within the US many Native Americans are now speaking English and even have English names: a black NBA player once reminded his people that their names were imposed on them by their white slavemasters - Michael Jordan's ancestor was a member of the Jordan slave plantation, etc. Nevertheless, when the Lakota Indians declared their independence last year (2008) the American media and government simply ignored it.

Externally, the imposition of language and culture has resulted in most African nations speaking English, French, or Spanish.
It's time for the Anglo-Saxon empire in particular to dismantle and to return what they robbed to all the native peoples, which means all those white men should return to Europe and let the Native Americans, Australian natives, Maoris, etc, rule themselves. That would be true democracy.

Thousands of missiles pointed at Taiwan, same scenario once between USA and USSR as the rest of the world lived in fear. Taiwan gains independence, then China uses military forces for a massive invasion. Absolutely nothing. Or total annihilation if missiles were used. What will people living in Taiwan gain? Is this the price anybody wants to pay? Even though I escape, then who would I become? The citizen of a country in refuge. No one wants this, but it is happening everywhere while history recorded the rise and the fall of humanity throughout the centuries. The pain and stain of yesterday remain and live today. I am proud of having Chinese ancestry, living in Taiwan. Just in my lifetime, I want to live in peace & love. I pray to my God that my children's children too will live in peace & love.

Part 1

Oh, Red China is so pure! The god you worship--Mao Zedong--put millions of his own people to death in the so-called "cultural revolution--which included murdering China's brightest and best university scholars, setting the country back a century! Also, he waged an extermination of many non-Han Chinese.

YOUR Mao Zedong illegally invaded an independent nation--a nation with NO military--and exterminated millions of innocent, peaceful people. Tibet did not share a common language or culture with China. THEY ARE NO CHINESE! They want their own independence, but China arrests and imprisons those brave people who resist--often murdering them and hiding it.

That would be like America invading Mexico, killing millions and forcing them to change their language, culture, and history. Then it would be like America targeting Canada with thousands of nuclear missiles and threatening them to "rejoin the mother land, America" or face total annihilation. Oh, that would really make Canada just love to lose their nation and heritage to gangsters, which is exactly what Red China is--a government of gangsters and lying hypocrites!

With great interest I read your comments but I also see a very educated reply from andrerieu. Your answer to him again was based on history but not on the real situation in Taiwan. Certainly one should learn from History, but for future decisions only the reality counts. Switzerland, for example, voted against a membership in the EU, as they did not see any added value being ruled by Brussels. Taiwan still has the freedom to decide its fate - Tibet, even if a majority there appreciates the help they received, does not have this freedom. In your last post you argued that China has allowed its dialects to flourish. Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge the first recorded genocide was executed by the first Qin emperor. Back to the current situation we see China supporting the most cruel regimes in North Korea and Myanmar. A final word: by writing "those white men should return to Europe" you would also send all Han-Chinese from Taiwan back to China. Not only the president, who was not even born here!

The real issue here is the PRC United Front tactic of using "useful expendable idiots" (directly quoting from Lenin) such as the writer of this editorial to spread the myth that Han ethnicity and culture equals 'Chineseness'. It is entirely possible for one to be Han and to have pride in Han culture, achievements and heritage WITHOUT subscribing to being Chinese. I myself being an Overseas "Chinese" or as I prefer to call myself Overseas Han feel pride in the achievements of Dynasties past and that of my people but I am loyal to the country of my passport and to the place where I grew up. It is geography, values and beliefs that define identity-not ethnicity as has been amply demonstrated through history. If Taiwan has a special place in the heart of Taiwanese then yes, they are Taiwanese (people of Taiwan) instead of "Chinese".

This is because China is a political construct, a useful instrument for whoever ruling the Mainland landmass (yes it is almost a continent geographically) to solidify public support in the name of 'Chinese nationalism'. In the face of this creeping insidious threat, Taiwanese, whether benshengren or weishengren must unite to deepen their love for their homeland, the island of Taiwan, that has no spiritual connection with China in the face of China's bellicose threats and intolerance

There is no sorrow in being Taiwanese, only Pride and Honor in standing up to a ruthless oligarchic dictatorship controlling 1.3 billion people that has more than 1000 Ballistic Missiles aimed at you and continuing to thrive, prosper and simply exist in the face of it all.

You would be right to take lessons from Europe, not from anything positive we have done but from our mistakes. Hundreds of millions have died in wars in Europe because of this sort of nationalistic rhetoric getting out of hand. It doesn't serve any purpose. In South Korea you hear this is the kind of talk all the time from young and older people in South Korea and it's mentally crippling.

Just think all of that happens because of human greed only.
War, democracy, language, motherland, politics and bla bla bla story was created to excuse the greedy bullying the weaker.
That is human nature...the strongest will force the weaker :p

Under the rule of the Republic of China, Taiwan has become one of the most prosperous nations in the world.

Well said brakmarn (see quote below). But there is a difference here in Taiwan. The Taiwanese speak the same language and have common ancestry with people in Fujian province in Mainland China.
"I am a European so it is not up to me to say if Lee is Taiwanese or Chinese or some combination of the two. One thing you can learn from Europe is that you cannot press the identity on others. The British could not make the Irish British, the Germans could not make the the Austrians German, the Spanish could not kill the Catalonian language and spirit. China should accept that the Taiwanese are of a different sort than those on the mainland."

hotbluetiger wrote "that would be like America invading Mexico, killing millions and forcing them to change their language, culture, and history. Then it would be like America targeting Canada with thousands of nuclear missiles and threatening them to "rejoin the mother land, America" or face total annihilation.

Oh, that would really make Canada just love to lose their nation and heritage to gangsters, which is exactly what Red China is--a government of gangsters and lying hypocrites!

Well the US did invade Mexico and took over what is today know as California and Texas.

Or it's despite the rule of the ROC Taiwan has become one of the most prosperous nations in the world.

This is the dumbest statement ever heard of.................................

Thank you, koooluv, for enlightening us with your strong argument.

Enjoy the author's spirit of self-examination very much!
I think this kind of spirit will eventually turn to be the source of improvement. As a Chinese, I look down upon small Japanese.