Breaking News, World News and Taiwan News.

Updated Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:26 am TWN, The China Post news staff

Sponsors
▪	Get the best deals for Guangzhou Hotels or choose from more than 10,000 hotels in 499 Chinese cities.
▪	Find great real time deals on China Flights. Book flights to China or China domestic flights 24/7.
▪	Buy china wholesale products from reliable chinese wholesalers on DHgate.com!
▪	Save 75% for all hotels in Shanghai, Beijing and whole China. Lowest rates for Flights in China.

Beyond Nationalism

Politics in Taiwan today is all about Blue vs. Green.

Being Blue means one affirms the legitimacy of the Republic of China and wants to preserve it. Being Green means one denies the legitimacy of the Republic of China and wants to replace it with a “Republic of Taiwan” or “Nation of Taiwan.”

The Blue vs. Green debate is a competition between nationalisms, between Chinese nationalism and “Taiwanese” nationalism, and between reaffirming a Chinese national identity and concocting a “Taiwanese” national identity.

But many members of the public on Taiwan are unspeakably weary of Blue vs. Green politics. When interviewed they say they merely wish to live their lives in peace, free from all political interference.

Guess what? They're right.

At the most fundamental level, what truly matters is not this nationalism or that nationalism, but individualism. What truly matters is not national identity, but individual identity. What truly matters is not whether one “belongs” to Nation X, or to Nation Y, but whether one belongs to oneself. In other words, whether one is free to live one's life in peace, free from political interference by any political authority.

Many in the modern world tend to assume that a world comprised of nation states is the way the world has always been. Many tend to forget that nationalism is a relatively recent phenomenon. A world comprised of nation states is not the way the world has always been. And luckily for mankind, it is not the way the world will be centuries from now.

Nationalism is a form of collectivism. Nationalism emphasizes the individual's membership, often involuntary, in a collective known as the nation state.

Nationalism originated in 18th century Europe. Since then it has become the most potent force in human history and not for the better. Nationalism was the direct cause of World War I and World War II, the two most horrific bloodbaths mankind has ever experienced.

Does that mean that the Blue Camp's Chinese nationalism is no better than the Green Camp's “Taiwanese” nationalism? Does that mean that the Green Camp's “Taiwanese” nationalism is no less valid than the Blue Camp's Chinese nationalism?

No, it does not. Nationalism subordinates the individual to the collective. Therefore there are no good nationalisms. But there are bad nationalisms, and there are worse nationalisms.

The Blue Camp's Chinese nationalism may be bad nationalism. But the Green Camp's “Taiwanese” nationalism is a far worse nationalism.

Chinese nationalism, to its credit, was purely defensive in nature. It was a defensive reaction to western and Japanese colonialism and imperialism, specifically Britain's two Opium Wars, and Japan's relentless attempts at territorial conquest.

1|2|Next Page>>

Comments

May 21, 2009 johangijs@

With terms like 'US hegemony' and 'former Japanese colonialism', you are seriously out of touch with the 21st century. You are ripe for moving to a fundamentalist Islam state, or worse, China. But stop insulting Taiwan - and democracy in general - in your editorials.

Johan Gijsen

May 22, 2009 johangijs@

Why only publish part of the comment I wrote? Either you publish my complete comment, or you publish nothing. This is not China (yet) where such journalistic practices are common. The missing part of my comment questioned why you put "Taiwanese nationalism" in quotation marks, while not doing so for the term Chinese nationalism.

Johan

(Ed note: All comments are edited for profanity, blatant name calling, spam, and advertising to maintain the civility of this forum.)

May 22, 2009 bankonline@

This man Johan Gijsen should accept the statement of the editorial because it is based on true fact and history about nationalism.

The Chinese people of Taiwan want to live in peace and harmony. That’s what every human wants once in a lifetime. Even people of other nations think likewise.

The "BLUE CAMP" never planned to sell out Diaoyutai to curry favor with Japan.
.

The "BLUE CAMP" never planned to resettle the Taiwan Aborigines to central America and South America.

The "BLUE CAMP" never planned for Taiwan to become the 51st state of America.
.

The "BLUE CAMP" maintained and preserved our country name as REPUBLIC of CHINA. That is-NATIONALISM and PATRIOTISM.

The "GREEN CAMP," those with Chinese ancestors from China who migrated and settled in Taiwan and claim themselves as Native Taiwanese and plan to resettle the REAL NATIVE ABORIGINES to Central and South America, are WORSE THAN HITLER.

The "GREEN CAMP" wanted to change the country name REPUBLIC of CHINA to REPUBLIC of TAIWAN and planned to become the 51st state of America as their 2nd option. "TRAITOR and BETRAYER".

This man Johan Gijsen should research history and open the dictionary to the meaning of NATIONALISM, PATRIOTISM, TRAITOR and BETRAYER.

Remember Johan Gijsen, American President Obama is an African American. Obama did not plan to resettle the WHITE AMERICAN to the EUROPEAN CONTINENT.

bankonline group

May 23, 2009 strong_as_metal@

johangijs@ wrote:
With terms like 'US hegemony' and 'former Japanese colonialism', you are seriously out of touch with the 21st century. You are ripe for moving to a fundamentalist Islam state, or worse, China. But stop insulting Taiwan - and democracy in general - in your editorials.

Johan Gijsen

Taiwan is moving to a "fundamentalist Islam state" or "China?" Care to elaborate? Or are you another fool working for the DPP?

And if Japan's avarice prior to '45 should not be justified as "colonialism," why are people like you constantly badgering the PRC about Tibet?

You seriously need to reevaluate your thoughts.

May 23, 2009 jf.amadei@

@johan

Since when is being pro-blue "undemocratic"?

May 26, 2009 kliu0@

This editorial disgusts me. As a citizen of the land we live in (Taiwan) you (the editorials) should be ashamed of yourselves. IF you [expletive deleted] love China so much then go to the mainland! You should thank Taiwan for the survival of your newspaper, if it wasn't for TAIWAN you wouldn't be here.

Chinese nationalism is a trade off, trading away your beliefs, views and attitudes for money. I am disgusted with your editorial and you are completely out of touch with the modern world.

May 26, 2009 hkchen@

It seems you might be the one out of touch.

May 26, 2009 getboba@

kliu0@ wrote:
This editorial disgusts me. As a citizen of the land we live in (Taiwan) you (the editorials) should be ashamed of yourselves. IF you [expletive deleted] love China so much then go to the mainland! You should thank Taiwan for the survival of your newspaper, if it wasn't for TAIWAN you wouldn't be here.

Chinese nationalism is a trade off, trading away your beliefs, views and attitudes for money. I am disgusted with your editorial and you are completely out of touch with the modern world.

Having expressed that you are so disgusted with this editorial, can you please share how you feel about the DPP's suggestion to relocate the REAL Taiwanese to South America? How do you feel about the DPP's constant efforts to divide Taiwan's people by ethnic categories? Most logical people with half a brain would find that pretty disgusting.

May 26, 2009 iwannawork@

I would guess that if it wasn't for people from China coming to Taiwan, YOU wouldn't be here. The same is true for most Taiwanese.

It seems you are the one that is completely out of touch with the modern world and how international relations works.

May 27, 2009 path888@

KLiu - Leave out the insults. Why don't I see any attempts to disavow (or at least try to defend) some of the "ideas" this article attributes to the Pan-Green camp? What is this idea about giving away Diaoyutai to the Japanese? Becoming America's 51st state? Resettling the aborigines to Central/South America? Are you out of your mind? Why is the DPP incapable of coming up with any sane ideas for the country? Everything you guys say is anti-KMT, anti-China, anti-anything-those-other-guys-say.

May 27, 2009 johangijs@

I'm having great fun reading your comments!

If you really want me to "elaborate", then have the courage to identify yourself properly like I do.

Johan Gijsen

May 27, 2009 roc4freedom@

@Johan Jifsen
Your statement did not elaborate any significant representation or arguments here for the reader. You don't even understand the word NATIONALISM.
But it’s fun that you place your EFFIGY under your statement for the 2nd time.

May 27, 2009 parfour@

johangijs@ wrote:
I'm having great fun reading your comments!

If you really want me to "elaborate", then have the courage to identify yourself properly like I do.

Johan Gijsen

In other words....you don't know how to further elaborate on your points. Just admit it. Don't try to turn this into some sort of comparison of courage.

May 27, 2009 path888@

johangijs@ wrote:
I'm having great fun reading your comments!

If you really want me to "elaborate", then have the courage to identify yourself properly like I do.

Johan Gijsen

I don't get it. Why do people have to "properly" identify themselves before you can elaborate on your reasoning? The whole point of having forums is to exchange ideas not to collect personal identities for you to hurl insults at. I'm STILL waiting for someone from the DPP to answer my questions.

May 28, 2009 thorazine.x12@

johangijs@ wrote:
I'm having great fun reading your comments!

If you really want me to "elaborate", then have the courage to identify yourself properly like I do.

Johan Gijsen

Hi Johan, it's me Gordi, the guy who almost kicked your azz for humiliating those girls at SPIN. You are such a BIG MOUTH.

May 29, 2009 maricar@

johangijs@ wrote:
I'm having great fun reading your comments!

If you really want me to "elaborate", then have the courage to identify yourself properly like I do.

Johan Gijsen

johangijsen. We don’t need you to elaborate anything. Because we know and understand your statement are all baseless. You must be stupid enough to have fun yourself.

May 30, 2009 thedealer@

Johan Gijsen. Yeah!!! You are right this time.
You really have fun.....

1-Freedom to write a kindergarten poem
2-Freedom to enjoy your free lifestyle in Republic of China
3-Freedom to cherish Thief Chen
4-Freedom to enjoy every DPP misdeed
5-Freedom to support the DPP plan to resettled the Native Aborigines to South America and Central America
6-Freedom to support the DPP to sell out "DIAOYUTAI" to Japan
7-Freedom to support the DPP to sell out Taiwan to America as the 51st state
8-Freedom to support the DPP to revise the 2-28 incident
9-Freedom to support the DPP in the INFAMOUS 3-19 incident

I can help you to ELABORATE more about Freedom and Nationalism, but only when Chen Shui-bian returns what he robbed from the people first.

June 1, 2009 kliu0@

I’m not DPP, but I believe that there should be a middle party, a third party that strikes the equilibrium. Blue + Green = Aqua? LOL

I’m not an advocate of any of the stupid DPP plans. But this has led to me to think about some things. Part of the US? Think about it, being part of the US is definitely better than being part of Red Communist China. We along with the US, hold the same beliefs, views and values.

Chen Shui Bian is not the face of the DPP. Remember a time when the DPP stood up for everyone, had true beliefs, views and values? A return to that DPP would serve democracy and our country better.

2-28 Incident needs official people to investigate, there are two sides of the story both KMT and DPP. I propose that a neutral investigation be conducted to clarify the things for both sides of the political spectrum.

Diaoyutai is our territory, not even Japan can change that.

We live on an island called Taiwan. Is it wrong to change our name, I don't hear the majority of the people saying that they live in China. Even deep blue TV shows call us Taiwan. Things made here have been labeled Made in Taiwan, Product of Taiwan. If the world won't accept us as the Republic of China, why not the Republic of Taiwan? Taiwan believes in freedom, democracy, human rights. China doesn't. Why continue to tag ourselves with an outdated and bad name. Even the name Taiwan symbolizes everything we have, our beliefs, views and values. Why associate our country with a name that is associated with capital punishment, persecution, communist, executions, poisoned milk, dangerous toys, cheap, polluted?

Of course, not everyone agrees with this view. I respect that, the problem with this is that we aren't settled down politically. Why don't the two parties end their bitter fighting, think about how the people who live in Taiwan feel? Other than fighting for their own agenda. We need a people conscious party, where our views are analyzed and brought forward. A party that truly represents us and doesn't get into power just to change everything, or steal our money. No offense, but politics is leading to our demise. This bitter fighting has led Taiwan nowhere right now.

June 7, 2009 johangijs@

Sad how this comments section is stained by ultra-right nationalism. Close to half of comments to all the editorials available are written by the same person with such strong tendency: roc4freedom, godblessamerica, bankonline etc. It’s only too obvious from the writer’s style.

Excerpt from one such mail:
“Your statement did not elaborate any significant representation or arguments here for the reader. You don't even understand the word NATIONALISM.”

I wrote an MA dissertation on Nationalism in Europe between the two World Wars (with special emphasis on Poland). My academic promoter was L. Vos, a leading specialist in European nationalism.

So like it or not: I CAN tell nationalism from neo-Nazism: A nationalist will not say "my race will dominate the other ones", while a neo-Nazi will call himself a nationalist.

June 8, 2009 bankonline@

johangijs@ wrote:
Sad how this comments section is stained by ultra-right nationalism. Close to half of comments to all the editorials available are written by the same person with such strong tendency: roc4freedom, godblessamerica, bankonline etc. It’s only too obvious from the writer’s style.

Excerpt from one such mail:
“Your statement did not elaborate any significant representation or arguments here for the reader. You don't even understand the word NATIONALISM.”

I wrote an MA dissertation on Nationalism in Europe between the two World Wars (with special emphasis on Poland). My academic promoter was L. Vos, a leading specialist in European nationalism.

So like it or not: I CAN tell nationalism from neo-Nazism: A nationalist will not say "my race will dominate the other ones", while a neo-Nazi will call himself a nationalist.

Happy to know johangijs self introduction as a Doctorate Degree holder of Philosophy who once wrote an MA dissertation....and his academic promoter is L Vos, a leading specialist in European nationalism. "I never hear of any L Vos"? Because Johangijs did not properly identify himself and his academic promoter, L Vos.

Johangijs says "So like it or not: I CAN tell nationalism from neo-Nazism.”

Johangijs says "A nationalist will not say "my race will dominate the other ones".

Johangifs what is that race you European nationalist create a rigid policy that the world have known as APARTHEID in South Africa imposed on the Black African? Does the word APARTHEID mean European nationalism against the Black?
Or does APARTHEID mean European Neo-Nazi to be a nationalist?

Could you mind elaborate what it means APARTHEID as a European nationalism? Every reader wants to learn from a PHILOSOPHER name JOHANGIJS.

June 9, 2009 skylarjones@

The world, including the USA, cares more about Capitalism than it does Democracy. That's the truth.